wasting away freeroll winnings

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Dodgey

... You really need x10 the buy in for SNGs in my opinion. x5 if you are very good.

Keep playing like that and you'll go broke. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in a month, who knows but you will go broke.

What is the most important thing for a serious pokerplayer?
Bankroll managment.

You say that you might be off good playing Sitt & Go's with 5 times the buy-in. No offence but that's bull****. No matter how good you are, no matter how good you run, you can at some point, sooner or later expect variance. Every single pokerplayer has at some point been on a coldstreak and it just never seems to end. This can last for a week, a month, even a year. And by not following proper bankroll managment you will go broke at some point. A lot faster if you're playing Sitt & Go's with 5 times the buy-in, that I can assure.

I suggest you google around for a while and learn about proper bankroll managment. Read some articles, look at some BRM charts, and finally adopt your own rules that you will make sure to follow.

By following proper bankroll managment you won't go broke, and you will overcome any coldstreaks you're suffering.

[ttwarrior1]

yeh it sucks when you get winnings and then decide to get into a bigger tourney, and boom your out and back to the start

[KeepBlinkin]

thats something that always happen with me i always waste my winnings in a single day, and all my FTP.

[Dodgey]

"You say that you might be off good playing Sitt & Go's with 5 times the buy-in. No offence but that's bull****. "

I do take offence. How can you think you can tell someone they are talking bull and try and add the caveat "no offence"? Doesn't work to be fair.

It all depends on how you play and how good you are. I'm not talking about just coming 1st. If I trawled through my records I'd be hard pushed to find 5 total losses in a row. I've def had 3 or 4 at worst.

That's why I said x10 or maybe x5 if you are good. Sure you can be unlucky and have a crap streak, but to be fair, if you are in trouble in SNGs, at low levels like 5 and 10 bucks, all you have to do is go ultra tight and wait for the table to reduce to 3 players. Coming 3rd in SNGs (10 seat) is childs play if you can resist the temptation to gamble.

I shoot for 1st as 3rd is not worth the effort or time.

For someone who is doing well at SNGs and had a bankroll of $50 - I'd say play 5$ games. till you get to $100, then go for $10 games. If you bust out, reload and lower your sights. Somtimes playing within very rigid bankrol "rules" can mess up your game. You end up playing below your level, getting bored, and losing because of your boredom and contempt of the competition. It happened to me.

I am aware that a lot of the bankrol guidelines help a lot of people, but at the same time, everyone is unique. Sometimes people need to follow rules to help them , sometimes they need to break out and do their own thing.

[Mist]

"You say that you might be off good playing Sitt & Go's with 5 times the buy-in. No offence but that's bull****. "

I do take offence. How can you think you can tell someone they are talking bull and try and add the caveat "no offence"? Doesn't work to be fair.

But if the other person is talking BS I can’t ignore it. But really, you shouldn't take things written on a pokerforum so personal. I mean come on, get over it.

It all depends on how you play and how good you are. I'm not talking about just coming 1st. If I trawled through my records I'd be hard pushed to find 5 total losses in a row. I've def had 3 or 4 at worst.

It’s not all about how good you are. You might play perfect poker, only make +EV moves, and still lose. How come? Because of badbeats. Good runs and bad runs will come and go, but if you play above your limits a bad run might whipe your whole bankroll away in a heartbeat.
You say that you’ve only had a losing streak of 3 or 4 S&G’s at a worst. To be able to fully evaluate how much profit/loss you make on an average you deffinetly need a huge sample size. I’m not talking of 30 S&G’s at the same level, I’m talking about a few thousand to start with.
If you’ve played this many Sitt & Go’s at the same level and have only had a losing streak of 3 or 4 in a row, I must say you are running better than God.

That's why I said x10 or maybe x5 if you are good. Sure you can be unlucky and have a crap streak, but to be fair, if you are in trouble in SNGs, at low levels like 5 and 10 bucks, all you have to do is go ultra tight and wait for the table to reduce to 3 players. Coming 3rd in SNGs (10 seat) is childs play if you can resist the temptation to gamble.
I shoot for 1st as 3rd is not worth the effort or time.

For starters, S&G’s are ALL about finishing ITM, where as MTT’s are all about making the final 3 (depending of course on the payout structure, but generally this is where the real money is).
As long as you in S&G’s get you’rer buy-in back and a little more you’re off good.

For someone who is doing well at SNGs and had a bankroll of $50 - I'd say play 5$ games. till you get to $100, then go for $10 games. If you bust out, reload and lower your sights. Somtimes playing within very rigid bankrol "rules" can mess up your game. You end up playing below your level, getting bored, and losing because of your boredom and contempt of the competition. It happened to me.

This is called grinding. It's not about making a huge bankroll quickly, it's about playing hundreds of thousands of hands before even thinking about moving up levels. And eventhough you might afford to play at higher limits, you don't have to. Maybe your hourly winrate plummits when you move up the levels just because you can't beat it. In this case it's better to stay at your current level, build up your pokerknowledge, and when you feel like you're ready to move up you try again. And if you fail, you move down again. Remember, never play above your skillevel or your bankroll.

I am aware that a lot of the bankrol guidelines help a lot of people, but at the same time, everyone is unique. Sometimes people need to follow rules to help them , sometimes they need to break out and do their own thing.

Apparently there's no convincing you, let me just say that you will be a losing player in the long run if you keep playing with these rules regarding your bankroll. The reason why winning players use bankroll rules is because it provides them stability. They can afford to take a badbeat or two, without it affecting their bankroll. They can go on coldstreaks without major swings in their bankroll. But, if you play without proper bankrollmanagment you will be living on the edge ALL the time, and one day you will fall.

Like I said, poker isn't about making big $ quickly. It's about slowly reaching your goals and learning at the same time.

[Dodgey]

----But if the other person is talking BS I can’t ignore it. But really, you shouldn't take things written on a pokerforum so personal. I mean come on, get over it.

I don't take many things seriously, but I do tire of people saying things like "that's BS" etc. It's BS in your opinion only. There is nothing to "get over" - I don't appreciate people being rude. I put forward my opinion - which is what forums are about. You don't agree, but that doesn't make it BS does it?

-----It’s not all about how good you are. You might play perfect poker, only
make +EV moves, and still lose. How come? Because of badbeats.

Yes, I know about variance. The point I make still stands. If you play to place, then it's very hard to lose your money in 5 games.

---- If you’ve played this many Sitt & Go’s at the same level and have only had a losing streak of 3 or 4 in a row, I must say you are running better than God.

Yep - I am playing well. I think not better than God, but if I start having a bad run, I just play for 3rd (or better) and soon recoup. Put it this way. I play 99% SnGs and have been doing so for a few years. I deposited $100 when I started (which I lost, learning the game), then another $100. I have never EVER reloaded since and I have a lot more than I started with.

You do NOT have to follow conventional bankrol management if your startegy allows for slowing down and "recovering". You can talk all day about variance but I maintain that coming 3rd in a SnG is amazingly easy for the disciplined.

------ For starters, S&G’s are ALL about finishing ITM, where as MTT’s are all about making the final 3 As long as you in S&G’s get you’rer buy-in back and a little more you’re off good.

Kind of - 3rd is are not worth the time spent in SnGs. You spend an hour or more to break even or make $5 or so. You'd be better off at a cash table to be honest. For me, 3rd in a SnG is a consolation prize for a wasted hour plus.

-----Apparently there's no convincing you, let me just say that you will be a losing player in the long run if you keep playing with these rules regarding your bankroll.

... But I'm not! lol. I'm a winning player - consistently. Just because the majority of people have a set bankrol "rule", which I agree completely is a great guideline, it does not mean you HAVE to apply it to yourself. That's what I am saying.

So I'm consistenly breaking the rules, but doing fine. And thats over years.

----Like I said, poker isn't about making big $ quickly.

On the other hand, grinding, for some of us, is dull. It makes me lose interest and then play badly. We all have different motivators.

[KeepBlinkin]

i dont understand why mist keep fighting with the members of this forum. its a place to have fun not to fight. everyone has an opinion and you dont have to prove who is wrong or who is right. we should learn from good advices and forget the bad ones.

[Fonzi]

Originally Posted by KeepBlinkin

i dont understand why mist keep fighting with the members of this forum. its a place to have fun not to fight. everyone has an opinion and you dont have to prove who is wrong or who is right. we should learn from good advices and forget the bad ones.

It's not fighting, it's a debate. and they both make good points.

[Dodgey]

.. with mine being the better (lol)

[Mist]

Dodgey, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I still think playing that way will get you in a lot of truble, but I respect your opinion. No idea for me to force feed my opinion to you, lol.

I just have to comment this part:

Originally Posted by Dodgey

...3rd is are not worth the time spent in SnGs. You spend an hour or more to break even or make $5 or so. You'd be better off at a cash table to be honest. For me, 3rd in a SnG is a consolation prize for a wasted hour plus...

That is why people multitable, playing from 2 upto 24 (!) Sitt & Go's at the same time. That is also why finishing ITM is so much more important in S&G's than in MTT's. It doesn't make a big difference if you win or barely make it ITM when you're multitabling Sitt & Go's - As long as you make a profit.

As a sidenote I could also ad that it's not possible to multitable if you only have 5 times the buy-in, which is also one of the main reasons why I think you'll need a LOT more buy-ins.

There are also quite many pro's who make their living only playing Sitt & Go's. There's no way they could do that if they weren't playing many S&G's simultaneously (multitabling). If they only played one S&G at a time and won it every single time, they would still make a lot less profit than if they played ten S&G's at a time and barely made it ITM in all of them. I know this is a drastic example, but just to prove my point.