Royal Bluff

[Assistanc3]

Seat 1: barchoka (3,560)
Seat 2: Assistanc3 (2,745)
Seat 3: GOOOODBYE3799 (1,435)
Seat 4: proptaxman (5,665)
Seat 5: JAMESE1 (7,935)
Seat 6: RETIREDPA (6,470)
Seat 7: TheGhostface (6,000)
Seat 8: spm421 (3,715)
Seat 9: Illinois Jim (3,240)

Assistanc3 posts the small blind of 50
GOOOODBYE3799 posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Assistanc3 [5s Ks]

proptaxman folds
JAMESE1 calls 100
RETIREDPA calls 100
TheGhostface folds
spm421 folds
Illinois Jim folds
barchoka calls 100
Assistanc3 calls 50
GOOOODBYE3799 raises to 200
JAMESE1 calls 100
RETIREDPA calls 100
barchoka calls 100
Assistanc3 calls 100

*** FLOP *** [Td Ac Jc]
Assistanc3 checks
GOOOODBYE3799 bets 100
JAMESE1 calls 100
RETIREDPA calls 100
barchoka folds
Assistanc3 calls 100

*** TURN *** [Td Ac Jc] [Qc]
Assistanc3 bets 1,400
GOOOODBYE3799 folds
JAMESE1 calls 1,400
RETIREDPA folds

*** RIVER *** [Td Ac Jc Qc] [Tc]
Assistanc3 has 15 seconds left to act
Assistanc3 bets 1,045, and is all in
JAMESE1 folds
Uncalled bet of 1,045 returned to Assistanc3

Assistanc3 shows [5s Ks] (a straight, Ace high)
Assistanc3 wins the pot (4,200)

[diegovarv]

Nice call on the flop, but the probability with which another player was get a flush in the turn was very big, for luck it was not a, nice hand.

[Mist]

I see what you are trying to do here, and this play is called "floating".

I have to say I'm not a fan of this play in this spesific hand, seeing as floating aggainst 3 other players will hardly never work in you favour and I feel this was a -EV move.

Generally you should only be floating aggainst one opponent, and this is IMO deffinetly not a good play in this hand.

[Assistanc3]

it's not floating, i had a draw, which I hit, so that makes +EV as you can see on the turn.

please use terms you understand Mist

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Assistanc3

it's not floating, i had a draw, which I hit, so that makes +EV as you can see on the turn.

please use terms you understand Mist

Sorry, missread the hand. Didn't see that you had the K thought you had the Q (1am here in Finland, my brains aren't really working properly lol)

Well, now that I'm reading the handhistory properly, I'll give you my insight on the hand.

Preflop - Standard

Flop - Your getting ~13:1 odds (just a quick glanze, to tired to actually count it proparly), but you're basically drawing to 3 or 4 outs. It's an OK call, but if you catch the Qc you basically have quite big reversed implied odds and might lose a lot on the hand.

Turn - The bet here I don't like at all, you're basically committing yourself here with your bet, and if you get called you pretty much have to call Villains bet on the river knowing you're probably behind.

River - Bad bet, would have tried to check it down instead. At this point you have to know you won't be in front of almost any hand, and I don't see the point of your bet at all. If you're trying to bluff here you've deffinetly picked the wrong spot to do so. Villain is getting ~4:1 odds to call on the river and it's pretty much an instacall. I can't see Hero beeing in the lead on the river after Villains call on the trun, and the bet in the end is just a desperate cry for help.

Conclusion:

I think both the Hero and the Villain played the hand very bad.

[Assistanc3]

ok try this

read it till u come up with a conclusion how I played it perfectly.
it is there, and even tho this thread is a year old, I still remember.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Assistanc3

ok try this

read it till u come up with a conclusion how I played it perfectly.
it is there, and even tho this thread is a year old, I still remember.

Nope, sorry I must be to stupid to see where the perfect play is.

Could you please show me, and possibly explain it to me slooooowly, so my brain won't explode?

Thanks .

[KingBorgo]

This is a perfect play. You say there are huge reverse implied odds if Qc hits. Nope. That is incorrect. There are only such odds if Hero is unable to lay his hand down when he suspects he is behind. For the size of the pot, and chip equity at this stage in the tournament, (50/100 is still within the first hour usually!) the Qc will only cost Hero the 100 he called with on the flop if there is an outright better hand sitting around.

And it is rather obvious there is no flush draw out there. 4 to a flop, with 2 clubs, and you see the turn for 100? Also, many of those players are going to be playing cards that matched the board. No, I fear no flush.

On the turn...Yes, with a nut flush, Villain will flat call an opponents bet of 60% of his stack with a made hand. Wait, no he won't. He makes that play with 2 cards. Kd or Kh. Those are the only two cards. Well, that make it a good call anyways. When the Tc hits, he doesn't want to waste another 1k on an obvious flush...that isn't there.

Yes, I am reading it from a perspective of having not played the hand. But, I also understand this play. It is not the first time I have seen it. Hell, I may have had the balls to toss it out there once or twice. God knows I'm not afraid to bet to get myself out of a jam. But, no, there is no floating, and no, I don't feel as though either player played it too badly. One was maximizing gain, the other was minimizing loss. The only difference...Hero knew what Villain was doing.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by KingBorgo

This is a perfect play. You say there are huge reverse implied odds if Qc hits. Nope. That is incorrect. There are only such odds if Hero is unable to lay his hand down when he suspects he is behind.

I only said so because I have no idea about Hero's pokerskills, because for some it might be difficult to lay down their hand when the Qc comes.

And it is rather obvious there is no flush draw out there. 4 to a flop, with 2 clubs, and you see the turn for 100? Also, many of those players are going to be playing cards that matched the board. No, I fear no flush.

I think you are missing a crucial point here. The level of play. Players at this level are usually very bad, and I can well see them playing a flushdraw this way. A good example of the poor level is seen preflop where the BB miniraised with four limpers already in the pot.

On the turn...Yes, with a nut flush, Villain will flat call an opponents bet of 60% of his stack with a made hand. Wait, no he won't. He makes that play with 2 cards. Kd or Kh. Those are the only two cards. Well, that make it a good call anyways. When the Tc hits, he doesn't want to waste another 1k on an obvious flush...that isn't there.

My following theory is based on your assumptions on Villain having Kd or Kh (straight).

Well, let's look at the hand from Villains point of view.
If villain decides to call the 1400 on the turn, knowing it's likely for Hero to have the flush, he must also know that Hero will probably put the rest of his chips in on the river (1k) no matter what card comes out.
Therefore it is extremly unlikely he can fold on the river, no matter the rivercard.

Hero should also realize this, and understand that he will most likely be called on the river if he then decides to go all-in.

If you look at it from Villains point of view then the club on the river shouldn't change anything IMO. Why?

1. The chances of Hero catching a flush or a straight on the turn are just as big IMO. Villain knew that he might be drawing dead when he called on the turn, so the club on the river shouldn't really change his decission of calling the all-in bet on the river with his straight.

2. Chanses of Hero calling the bet on the flop with XcXo and then betting out on the turn with a flushdraw is extremly unlikely, so therefore it is also quite unlikely that Villain cought the flush on the river.

3. Probably the most important thing. When he called the bet on the turn he took a chance knowing he might be behind, and the club on the river gives him no new info. Therefore he has to call on the river seeing as he already called on the flop (plus he's getting 4:1 odds).

This is why I think both Hero and Villain played the hand wrong. Hero should have realized that Villain would call his bet on the river, and Villain should've called on the river because he basically already made that decission on the turn.

Either he folds his straight on the turn, or calls the turn AND the river, knowing that he was probably already behind on the turn where he took a chance by calling.

...there is no floating...

As I already explained, I wasn't fully paying attention when reading thru the handhistory for the first time.