Can making a big bluff give you a "Donkey" status?

[Iownuall]

Hi all,

I would just like to begin by stating that I am interested in as much feedback as possible on this particular question. Don't worry I have a very thick skin so please don't hold back with any of your comments or opinions. Basically, I am little confused.

Last night I was in the Rounder's Radio $100 freeroll @ VP24/7 and I was doing pretty well up to and just after 2nd break. I mean I was playing my game as usual ( pretty tight ), I was up around 9500. Well, pretty soon after the break someone got moved to my table and he/she had 14K. Now this person was a pure Bully, Blind Stealer whatever you want to call it they were raising each and every hand with rediculous raises.

Finally, after about 2 1/2 times of them doing this around the table, I elected that I was going to bluff them out of their bluff.

Okay now picture this!! Blinds are 600/1200 and I'm the BB. 1st to act folds, followed by fold,fold fold. The "Loose Canon" to no surprise raises to just the minimum so 2400. The player beside him/her flat calls. This is then preceeded by the rest of the table folding. Okay the action is on me. (Now keep in mind that I don't normally do this) but I bluff re-raise 5000 leaving me with about 380 lol cause it's Pot Limit with 7-2 off suit. The "Loose Canon" folds but the player who flat called calls me.

Now this is where I get lost. Flop comes 7-2-9. (OMG) I check, he/she goes all-in I call for my remaining measley 380. I'm up against pocket 10's. Needless to say my 2 pair holds up and now this person is going mental on me... calling me a donkey as well as every other name in the book. My responses were as follows:

I 'm not a donkey.. I just merely bluffed at a pot to steal it... had you re-raised me i would have folded for sure, but you didn't you just called. I can't help it if you just called and I hit. Also, if you had been paying attention... I've only actually been playing like 4-5 quality hands/hr.

Anyhow, my questions to you fellow SP members is:

1. Am I really a DONK ?
2.Shouldn't he/she played the 10's differently?
OR
3. Should I have not attempted a bluff in the first place and let the "Loose Canon" walk all over the table?

As a point of interest, the "Loose Canon" stopped bluffing every pot after that!! lol

Please let me know, I value each and every one of your opinions and/or thoughts.

:wav:

[1derdawgg]

You're motivation was good and aimed at the right player but with the second person calling you should have taken into consideration that they had something worth playing calling the raise as well.

The fact that you flopped 2 pair is something but how could he complain. He knew you only had 380 chips and he should have been concerned that his tens were vulnerable. The fact that he was out drawn is the nature of the beast. He had chances to counterfeit your two pair and missed. He took the gamble that his tens were good and lost.

As for the hand you decided to make the move with that is "donkish." You should have at least picked one with some straight possibilities or suited. Picking the mathematically worst hand in poker is pretty bad until it hits then so be it.

The only one really at fault on this hand is the guy with the tens. He was playing calling station and like most calling stations he got slapped. He should have made his move with the tens raising the loose canon before it got to you and he'd never seen that 27os.

You benefited from the Calling Station that didn't pay attention to the hands or even give thought to what you might have played a pot bet from the bb with. You could have had JJ, then who would he think is the donk.

He played the hand bad and has no reasonable excuse for his attitude about the outcome.

Nice Hit!

[scarby]

I agree with Cubby here. You should have picked a better spot to bluff the loose player. As a rule of thumb. I never bluff at pot when there are more than one person in the hand. I will take a stab at it if I have a decent enough hand preflop to take a race if needed. But in this situation, fold is the better option.

You have to assume that the caller is also aware of the loose player and has a hand. I would say a possible trap here. In this situation you were getting good odds also to flat call. I may not elect to with your hand, but the odds were good. You got very lucky with this flop. If you had flat called here, you might have made more money slow playing the two pair. Your loose player would have made a play I am sure, with the tens calling or re-raising. This is where you can sucker the loose cannon in and you could have tripled up. A good scenario with a bad starting hand.


Is this a donk play. A little. But I do understand your reasoning. I would just wait for a better starting hand to do it with.

I hope this helps at all.

[hayden1009]

Once the other player also flat called I would have assumed he had something as well so I most likely would have folded right there and saved 1200 chips. Nothing wrong with a stone bluff when you pick your spots, but I am not sure you picked the right spot or with the right cards. When the dust settled you had the poker Gods shine down upon you. As for him getting ticked, well good play from him or bad, who knows, perhaps he was getting impatient with the calling station as well and lets be honest if the shoes were on the other feet you would be thinking donk as well. Every one has the stone bluff in the arsenal if they plan on winning, but the different between a great stone bluff and a donk is having to show your cards, but in this case you got very lucky so I can see his point of view. If you sit at vegas with this person again and you see a little N in your avatar then you will know he thinks your a donk, either it worked in your favor and luck is part of the game and I am glad the calling station still lost 2400 to you.

[woohoo sue]

the noted player doesnt see the N does hest the guy who put the note there......

ok right now ...how manyu of you guys have N's on me

welcome iounuall....im sorry this game poker has many right and left angles in it......The "donk" term here in this league is used frequently....not saying bad or good ..im just saying don't let a player calling you that throw your game...

your reasoning behind making the moves you made are humanand not donk they were TILT....but voila u hit 2 pair with 380 left in my chips at flop... I would have to die or live with them too. You asked for honesty here so here it is .... your bluffing put u in a position where this could have gone badly for you....it didnt so no harm.....the risk you took was too great ....try not to do that too much....but following up with your hand was the right call the wrong call was to bluff ..you let a situation control your moves and put you at risk.....you really want to stick around for the final table ......the snacks they serve there are of much higher quality

and to the other guy......stop name calling

[hayden1009]

the noted player can see the N but they dont know who at the table has the notes. Including if your on the rail watching then the N will appear

[daytona0]

very bold.

Some guy called in the middle. You ultimately want the loose cannon to put his money in when you have the best of it because he is going to double you up the easiest. Dont go making random bluffs if there is another person in the pot who has voluntarily put money in.

The lesson is, bluff a loose cannon if you want AND show it to make him tilt, but respect the fact that other players are aware of his looseness and are trying to take advantage of him.

[MONEYMAN06]

If its me I don't do it, remember were playing in a freeroll here, people aren't going to stop and look at your move and think twice about it. In a good players eyes it looks like you have a strong hand but some things to consider here, another player flat called this guy's minimal raise, its possible that this guy could have AA, KK. I have seen people try and flat call with those hands a lot of times against loose opponents. This situation would be better if it were just you and him. So essentially what I am saying here is when you bluff try an make it against one opponent unless there is some sort of special circumstance where you think you can get away with it, but this is not the right spot. Another thing you want to consider is the pot odds that the other players were getting. After the loose player folds to your re-raise, the guy with the 10's was getting pretty good odds on his money to call. I would say in order to pull this bluff you have to have more chips. And now the next problem is the cards your picking to do this...72os. Not smart at all, your leaving yourself a small chance of winning now. If your going to make this move you have to at least have something here. To be honest here, I really can't blame the guy for calling you a donk here, this was just flat out a bad attempt at a bluff and you just so happened to luck out. Thats just my opinion though.

[Iownuall]

Hey All,

Thanks for all the feedback up to this point. One thing that I do want to make clear however is that is wasn't so much that I wanted to donk either player or even play 7-2 for that matter. I just simply had decided that I wanted to do this when I was in the position to be the last one to act. Just so happened that those were my cards

Regardless, I've absorbed all of your imput and it is greatly appreciated. It was a move that was totally uncharacteristic of my style of play so I've learned a valuable lesson and will stick to my game style from now on. ( with the ocassional bluff here and there. ) lol

Thanks All !!

:wav:

[krhoden]

im surprised no-one has said this b4 me but (remember you said you have a thick skin) I see many flaws in your play--if that makes you a donkey or not is a question for some1 else to answer, i wouldnt say your a donkey for 1 bad play!! heres my take on this tho!

1) as some1 above mentioned you certainly should have picked a better value hand to make this type of move with (even tho it worked for you)

2) limit isnt really a game for trying to make a huge bluff like you did its more of a game of semi bluffs because its too easy for a big stack to call!

3) you said if he had re-raised you-- you would,ve folded, how could you, you werent in a postion after your bet to fold with 380 which leads me to # 4

4) a good bluff is typically done when your in a postion to fold if some1 comes over the top pf you (most player,s bluff from a position of chip stack--meaning 9 out of 10 times it wont be wise to try a bluff if it means your gonna put yourself out of chips by making it!!

5) MONEYMAN said this above too---when trying to run a bluff you should ALWAYS make sure your not giving anyone the right price to call you (if a player is getting the right odds on a pot and knows the game you,ll likely get a call everytime!